Personality types of the mbti

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Post by frmthhrt on Fri Oct 05, 2012 2:35 pm

...crap...accidentally closed the page with a long post on this and lost it!

I was pointing out where HSP skews things. All of this sensitivity and emotion...

I can see aspects of my 4 possible results...(considering I am close to 50% in two places).
engineer(ISTP)/artist (ISFP)/architect/(INTP)/questor (INFP).

When I read through the descriptions of the types, I find the most discrepancy with ISTP because of:
" not very affectionate", " can be insensitive to the misfortunes of others"," anti-tattoos, anti counter culture" , "rather unemotional","more interested in intellectual pursuits than relationships or family","not complimentary"

The career choices are reasonable.
Significantly, the general description is spot on:
" Values freedom of action and following interests and impulses. Independent, concise in speech, master of tools".

ISFP is closer...but these are wrong:
" suggestible","fearful", "anxious", "easily distracted", "easily disturbed","prone to confusion", "prone to quitting"
NEVER!
The only career choice of those listed that I like is Photographer. Why is ISFP called "artist", when all of the "arts" careers are listed under INFP?
I have always been an artist; I identify, associate and connect with artists. I have been a serious photographer for years.

INTP has a few issues too:
"more interested in intellectual pursuits than relationships or family", "wrestles with the meaninglessness of existence" (not any more...),"unemotional", "abrupt"

INFP nots:
" prone to quitting"
...the furthest thing from me! I can be relentless, resolute and insanely stubborn. I never ever quit.
"daydreams about people to maintain a sense of closeness", "focus on fantasies","can feel defective","feels shame"," prone to dreaming about a rescuer","easily distracted","can sabotage self","sometimes can't control fearful thoughts","prone to feeling discouraged"," can feel victimized", "prone to confusion", "prone to irresponsibility"

Most of the INFP careers look really good!
poet, painter, freelance artist, musician, writer, art therapist, teacher (art, music, drama), songwriter, art historian, library assistant, composer, work in the performing arts, art curator, playwrite, bookseller, cartoonist, video editor, photographer, philosopher, record store owner, digital artist, cinematographer, costume designer, film producer, philosophy professor, librarian, music therapist, environmentalist, movie director, activist, bookstore owner, filmmaker

That was a fun exercise. Very Happy

I feel like an artist, and an engineer/architect, and inventor and author, and sometimes even a "questor" (and you can throw in the enneagram "Peacemaker" as well)...but maybe not in the sense that they are suggested in the MBTI. I really am an emotional and sensitive person.
Without HSP I am sure I would be a strong INTP...but the discrepancies,overlap and weaknesses of the system are apparent in my case.

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Post by frmthhrt on Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:18 pm

According to this description, I an very UN-ISFP:
http://typelogic.com/isfp.html

Hmmm...that may narrow the playing field a bit for me.
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Post by Dreamspace on Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:19 pm

Just remember that not everything is going to fit you. MBTI is a pretty simplified compilation of Jung's theory into sixteen types, and really there are multiple underlying functions which could be at differing levels of development, meaning one person within a type may be very different from others. Sometimes when you assign attributes to a certain type, it's almost like making sweeping generalizations about individuals from a particular cultural background. So when you say you are very complex and atypical in many aspects, I absolutely believe you — everybody is, more or less.

If you buy into the canard that Thinking types don't have feelings, you may be very much confused. The same thing goes with Feeling types; they can understand things in a logical scheme just fine, most often, and may have an easier time understanding logical concepts than Thinking types depending on whether or not they're curious individuals. It's just that a Thinker usually puts impersonal reasoning first and their feelings second, and Feelers are the other way around.

If you believe yourself to be listening to and valuing your feelings more and more, switching from INTP to INFP actually isn't plausible; however, it is entirely possible for an Introverted Thinking (Ti) dominant to develop his Extraverted Feeling (Fe) function and learn how to make decisions with that over his lead function. In an interpersonal situation, I (an INTP) may examine a problem in the relationship and decide I should behave in a way which is sensitive to the other person's emotional desires; or I may decide that even if something I've done may not be entirely logical or practical, it was the right choice because it reflected my feelings, and I recognize it's important to feel emotionally fulfilled.

As for HSP, I think you could be quite right about it skewing things up a bit. Everybody from this community seems to be convinced that I am HSP (whereas I've no idea), and all seem to think I am the consummate INTP (which I am reasonably certain of). I believe it would be fair to say that I am a bit more emotional, or at least more consciously aware of my emotions, than most other INTPs, and that maybe I am a little more sensitive and willing to acknowledge the validity of emotions than many other Thinking dominants (when I'm not having conniptions, at least).

Anyhow, in closing, if you feel pretty confident you identify with most of the INTP description but aren't a robot, remember this: http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_llx2xp9d5W1qkzx40o1_500.jpg
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Post by frmthhrt on Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:22 pm

Good points, and I love that INTP fact.

...that may explain something about the lengths some of us will go to for our friends.
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Post by melodiccolor on Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:23 pm

Dreamspace wrote:Just remember that not everything is going to fit you. MBTI is a pretty simplified compilation of Jung's theory into sixteen types, and really there are multiple underlying functions which could be at differing levels of development, meaning one person within a type may be very different from others. Sometimes when you assign attributes to a certain type, it's almost like making sweeping generalizations about individuals from a particular cultural background. So when you say you are very complex and atypical in many aspects, I absolutely believe you — everybody is, more or less.

If you buy into the canard that Thinking types don't have feelings, you may be very much confused. The same thing goes with Feeling types; they can understand things in a logical scheme just fine, most often, and may have an easier time understanding logical concepts than Thinking types depending on whether or not they're curious individuals. It's just that a Thinker usually puts impersonal reasoning first and their feelings second, and Feelers are the other way around.

If you believe yourself to be listening to and valuing your feelings more and more, switching from INTP to INFP actually isn't plausible; however, it is entirely possible for an Introverted Thinking (Ti) dominant to develop his Extraverted Feeling (Fe) function and learn how to make decisions with that over his lead function. In an interpersonal situation, I (an INTP) may examine a problem in the relationship and decide I should behave in a way which is sensitive to the other person's emotional desires; or I may decide that even if something I've done may not be entirely logical or practical, it was the right choice because it reflected my feelings, and I recognize it's important to feel emotionally fulfilled.

As for HSP, I think you could be quite right about it skewing things up a bit. Everybody from this community seems to be convinced that I am HSP (whereas I've no idea), and all seem to think I am the consummate INTP (which I am reasonably certain of). I believe it would be fair to say that I am a bit more emotional, or at least more consciously aware of my emotions, than most other INTPs, and that maybe I am a little more sensitive and willing to acknowledge the validity of emotions than many other Thinking dominants (when I'm not having conniptions, at least).

Anyhow, in closing, if you feel pretty confident you identify with most of the INTP description but aren't a robot, remember this: http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_llx2xp9d5W1qkzx40o1_500.jpg
I fully agree. Some good points also about the use of logic and feelings by both types. Just remember that not all types lead by emotions or logic; some lead by intuition instead. There is endless variety and in the end we are all one of a kind.

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Post by anarkandi on Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:50 am

Heart, both infp's and intp's have si and ne, but you show a very ti way of approaching and discussing your type, leading me to assume that you are one. Intp's often dissect and read through alot of facts picking out which ones are correct and not, they're good at picking up small details and do logical backtracking due to their thinking and inferior sensing skills. Having intuition as your auxilary function you will be good at exploring and jumping into new possibilities, and you seem to show that drive, you often talk about and like talking about the things you are going to do in your days as we chat, leading me to think that the concept of the future and the possibilities around you are a huge drive for you, something you think about alot. The gifts of INTP's often include clarity/lucidity, precision, accuracy, logical deductions and reasoning, a strive for perfection. For an INFP that is rather hope & expectations, idealism, virtue, gut reactions and resonating with things they come across, a strive for harmony.

The things that you can be. And, regarding your emotions, ofcourse, you are a feeler and you care intensely about people, introverted thinkers have an extroverted feeling function as their fourth most concious. However, it's not always as pure and concious as it is in people who have it as their strongest function. This can lead INTP's to draw false conclusions about how others perceive them, and misread others emotions at times, and expressing their feelings take some more energy, leading them to do it in a kind of childlike form expressed in that image/post you posted. But the intensity of the feelings aren't weaker or stronger than that of any other type, rather, it's how much energy it takes on you to use it, how you express it and how much you value the conclusions your emotions may lead you down.

Oh, and recommended careers.. I wouldn't trust any of that too much. Smile We're birds, birds should fly where they please and any person can be successfull at any craft, be it they set their mind to it.
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Post by frmthhrt on Sat Oct 06, 2012 10:58 pm

LOL. I don't need any more careers thank you, I just accidentally changed mine a couple of months ago, but yes, there are many things that I can do, if I so choose. Usually I am quite good at pretty much anything I try.
I know it's all hypothetical stuff...I was in an exploratory mood, and HSP really does seem to add a bit of a wild card to the game. As you say, I may approach problems somewhat like an INTP, but that is not a given either...I do like to believe I am unique...whether or not that is a good thing is another question. Suspect

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Post by Dreamspace on Sun Oct 07, 2012 2:18 am

For an INFP that is rather hope & expectations, idealism, virtue, gut reactions and resonating with things they come across, a strive for harmony.

This is where things can get murky and confusing. Hope, expectations, idealism, virtue, having things emotionally resonate, and striving for harmony are all things many INTPs value, as well — they just go about it in a different way. In my personal experience, INTPs are usually a bit more rigid with their principles and have a strong desire for evenness. It's also very important for INTPs to understand things and for it all to add up and make rational sense to them.

INFPs, I've found, don't impartially examine things in the way INTPs do because their inner convictions are personal truths, and their sense of evenness is very different in that what matters is whether a thing is congruent to their beliefs. The INTP process is cold and impersonal analysis which only looks to bring order and structure to ideas. INFPs want a continuity, but it is much more personal, passionate, and driven by a sense of what is righteous or beautiful to them, and usually why they are enthralled by literature, poetry, and just arts and humanities in general.

Since emotion is going to be something you'll be acutely aware as an HSP regardless of type, it'd probably be a good idea to compare Fi versus Fe. (Bear in mind this the following is based on Jungian theory; if any IxFP feels misrepresented then my apologies.) Fi decides for itself what is good or valuable and will reject others who don't meet their own standards, whereas Fe is more accommodating and will comport itself according to the customs of values of the group. Both have their way of valuing people and principles, but with Fi types the values are individualistic and more constant, and the Fe types will instead bend to get along with others. So when an Fi type values harmony, it wishes itself and what they encounter to be in compliance with its value system or else they will find it disagreeable. An Fe type wants to behave in a manner which is agreeable to others because it values external harmony among the group; it wants to be coherent with the group's feelings and values rather than the other way around.

An Fi type would probably see a compromising to get along with others as a compromise of their integrity and identity — it would be untrue to themselves and an abasement. An Fi type's value system is much more than a moral compass; it is the primary means by which they understand everything, and without it they would be lost both in navigating the world and understanding themselves. An INTP is a Ti type whose primary compass is his personal logic, so they will be independent in this way, but their emotional value-based judgments are all more externalized and people-dependent.

I apologize for being long-winded, but it can be difficult to sufficiently draw the distinction between an INTP and INFP when both are Ji (Introverted Judging; making internalized judgments of ideas abstracted from external objects) dominants with identical auxiliary and tertiary functions. But maybe it'll help you make sense of the differences.
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Post by melodiccolor on Sun Oct 07, 2012 2:55 pm

Dreamspace wrote:


Since emotion is going to be something you'll be acutely aware as an HSP regardless of type, it'd probably be a good idea to compare Fi versus Fe. (Bear in mind this the following is based on Jungian theory; if any IxFP feels misrepresented then my apologies.) Fi decides for itself what is good or valuable and will reject others who don't meet their own standards, whereas Fe is more accommodating and will comport itself according to the customs of values of the group. Both have their way of valuing people and principles, but with Fi types the values are individualistic and more constant, and the Fe types will instead bend to get along with others. So when an Fi type values harmony, it wishes itself and what they encounter to be in compliance with its value system or else they will find it disagreeable. An Fe type wants to behave in a manner which is agreeable to others because it values external harmony among the group; it wants to be coherent with the group's feelings and values rather than the other way around.

An Fi type would probably see a compromising to get along with others as a compromise of their integrity and identity — it would be untrue to themselves and an abasement. An Fi type's value system is much more than a moral compass; it is the primary means by which they understand everything, and without it they would be lost both in navigating the world and understanding themselves. An INTP is a Ti type whose primary compass is his personal logic, so they will be independent in this way, but their emotional value-based judgments are all more externalized and people-dependent.

While your general analysis is good, I am fairly sure the difference between Fe and Fi needs some refinement. As an INFJ, I do use Fe, but I derive my value system internally, independent of the groups around me. INFJ are well known for this, our own sense of ethics. The difference is, we don't expect others to adhere to our values, but to be true to their own.

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Post by Dreamspace on Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:52 am

melodiccolor wrote:While your general analysis is good, I am fairly sure the difference between Fe and Fi needs some refinement. As an INFJ, I do use Fe, but I derive my value system internally, independent of the groups around me. INFJ are well known for this, our own sense of ethics. The difference is, we don't expect others to adhere to our values, but to be true to their own.

Extraverted Feeling is sensitive to others' emotional states and cares about others' feelings more than it focuses on its own, but if you are an INFJ you are an Introverted iNtuitive dominant, meaning that will supersede any Extraverted Feeling judgments. The tendency of an Introvert is to reject the extrinsic if it fails to align with its currently held beliefs. Thus, an INFJ's values and feelings will have a focus toward group dynamics, it will general not conform. Both Introverted functions in conjunction with one another (in this case, Ni and Ti) will beat out the Extravered functions (Fe and Se) and view alterity as a threat to the Ego.

While it is quite possible I may need to refine my definitions of Fi and Fe, it seems my current definition of Fe is actually quite easily reconciled with the INFJ tendency toward having independent belief systems.
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Post by Riana on Thu Oct 18, 2012 6:27 am

After thinking for a long time that I was an INFP, I am now coming more and more to the conclusion that I am in fact an ISFP.

Introverted (I) 63.33% Extroverted (E) 36.67%
Sensing (S) 58.33% Intuitive (N) 41.67%
Feeling (F) 65.63% Thinking (T) 34.38%
Perceiving (P) 59.38% Judging (J) 40.63%

It took a bit of getting used to, seeing myself as a Sensing type instead of an Intuitive one, but I'm at peace with it now Smile
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Post by Rivershine on Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:18 pm

I am no longer INFP but rather ENFP. This doesn't surprise me in the least. Turns out my introversion was nothing more than severe anxiety and panic disorders that I have gotten mostly under control now. I do need time to myself after social exchanges, I do still enjoy solitary walks, but that's because I need to calm down from highly sensitive overwhelm.

You have moderate preference of Extraversion over Introversion (44%)
You have moderate preference of Intuition over Sensing (38%)
You have strong preference of Feeling over Thinking (88%)
You have moderate preference of Perceiving over Judging (33%)





Last edited by Rivershine on Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:18 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Because I'm special. :))
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Post by Nucky on Tue Oct 23, 2012 5:17 pm

frmthhrt wrote:
I think I am getting over the whole MBTI thing. It's a good guide, but it is still a bit weak, and I believe HSP skews the results. INTP/INFP/ISFP...seems only the I and the P are concrete- by most tests. Maybe I am embracing different aspects of my personality.

I'm becoming a bit skeptical of MBTI myself. MBTI theory says that it's impossible for someone to be very proficient at both Fi and Ti, I say that's a bunch of hogwash. Very rare perhaps (and I am not one of them,) but it's definitely not impossible. Values and logic are not mutually exclusive.

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Post by Dreamspace on Tue Oct 23, 2012 8:12 pm

Nucky wrote:I'm becoming a bit skeptical of MBTI myself. MBTI theory says that it's impossible for someone to be very proficient at both Fi and Ti, I say that's a bunch of hogwash. Very rare perhaps (and I am not one of them,) but it's definitely not impossible. Values and logic are not mutually exclusive.

Well, how the theory works is that INFPs and INTPs have two distinct arrays of cognitive functions:

INFP
Dominant – Introverted Feeling
Auxiliary – Extraverted iNtuition
Tertiary – Introverted Sensation
Inferior – Extraverted Thinking

INTP
Dominant – Introverted Thinking
Auxiliary – Extraverted iNtuition
Tertiary – Introverted Sensation
Inferior – Extraverted Feeling

Basically, yeah, in a way Jung said Thinking and Feeling at the same time would be like looking left and right at the same time, so if you consistently use Fi then your use of Te would be limited because Thinking and Feeling repel one another, as do Sensation and iNtuition. But Feeling dominants are hardly incapable of understanding science or logic. Take, for instance, Neil deGrasse Tyson (ENFJ; Feeling dominant) and Brian Cox (xNFP; Feeling dominant or auxiliary), who're popular physicists and able to understand complex mathematics and abstract theories (which is possibly as much due to their powerful intuitions than capacity for logic).

Furthermore, it's actually not considered impossible to have perfectly balanced Thinking and Feeling functions, just exceedingly difficult for Thinking/Feeling dominants. It'd be less so for, say, an ENTP or ENFP, as they have auxiliary and tertiary Thinking/Feeling, and both reside in the domain of the conscious — which leads me to another point. An individual with repressed Feeling will still possess this function, just in an unconscious capacity. In other words, even in their youth, a Feeling type will have a strong grasp of logic; it just won't be what the conscious mind dwells upon.

Jung has said, unequivocally, you can perfectly balance Introversion and Extraversion, though, and the same principle should be applicable to the function-types (Thinking/Feeling, Sensation/iNtuition).

But if none of this sits right with you, keep in mind it is a theoretical model which attempts to account for why people are like they are. There are non-theoretical models which adhere purely to the facts and data regarding behavioral traits and don't get into the why, but only how: descriptive models. The Big Five models (OCEAN, SLOAN) are great even if they don't offer any reason as to why we are how we are, or what's going on beneath the hood. Not to mention, they factor in Neuroticism, which is a measure of emotional stability — a dynamic entirely neglected by Jung/MBTI. It explains how someone like me can primarily think in impersonal terms rather than feelings or values (not that I'm entirely out of touch with or not strongly influenced by these), yet be prone to anxiety attacks or suddenly strong outbursts or meltdowns.

In any case, if you feel like typology is boxing you in and constricting yourself as a person, just forget the whole thing. It's really rather complex and a big time sink, so it's very easy to misinterpret its implications. If you believe you can do something and have the motivation to accomplish it, you can. Typology is only one method of self-exploration, and if it doesn't suit you, you can try understanding yourself with another framework, with a counselor, or through whatever other medium speaks to you, like meditation, poetry, or anything involving self-reflection.
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