In the state of happiness

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Post by melodiccolor on Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:50 pm

After a very rough year, I was thinking this morning of how easy it is for me to feel happy and how much it takes for me to hurt, be sad or grieving, even now.

All it takes to make me really happy, even in the middle of grieving, is sublime music, discovering a new dish, musician, music genre, art, my cats antics, a deeply satisfying or funny book, tv show or movie, small moments of beauty and joy, a great discussion or connection with someone, a shared moment; all those small things that can happen at any time.

It takes a lot to move me out of that space; like a deliberate attack or cruelty, someone dying, or someone dear to me hurting badly, or being overwhelmed by unrelenting things going wrong without time to recover. I don't tend to stay in the space that is not happy for long, fortunately.

I know how I relate to the world emotionally is fundamentally different than most others; this really has been driven home. So I'm asking you, how it is for you? Are you able to enjoy time in the state of happiness easily? Or do the things life throw at you keep you out of it? Any insight as to why either way?

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default Re: In the state of happiness

Post by Cat on Mon Jan 30, 2017 5:25 pm

I've been thinking on this one.

This has been a rough year for me too - but after reflecting on it, it included some of those major things you mentioned. (Deliberate cruelty, overwhelmed by things without time to recover, people close to me hurting badly) I've been pretty depressed and anxious lately, but looking at all of these things together now seems to make more sense.

Otherwise, my list of contentment is very similar to yours. A moving film will leave me feeling fulfilled a week after watching it, a moment of real connection, little moments of beauty and creativity. (I think I've had this tendency since childhood as well - I spent hours watching films like Jim Henson's Labyrinth on repeat without needing much more novelty than that. Sort of an obsessive quality of being able to appreciate the layers of things maybe? I'm not sure. Or maybe just the finding a deep connection within a particular thing and diving into that. People think my lack of variety can be nuts haha)

melodiccolor wrote:
I know how I relate to the world emotionally is fundamentally different than most others;  this really has been driven home.

Funny you say this, I was just talking to someone about how I rarely find people who feel really deeply moved by this genre of slow, dreamy music I love. After attending a live concert once, my friends at the time told me they found it "boring" more than anything, and weren't really interested in seeing it again. (Which, I understand that we all have different tastes, but the idea of other people not being able to feel any sort of deep emotions from the experience blew my mind. Disagreement and dislike make sense to me, but to not feel any type of emotional experience/reaction at all doesn't.)
When I asked them about this, they just asked me "What are you even feeling from it so deeply?" and I couldn't really articulate an answer, just that I felt...something. Inner harmony maybe.

It seems like most things I feel really moved by are just sort of "there" or "boring" to others. Is this what you mean too?

Overall, I am not sure if I would say I am able to enjoy time in the state of happiness easily. I tend to feel anxious and out of place during daylight hours, and just sort of soldier through. But maybe this is what makes me feel really deeply and intensely satisfied when I do experience those moments of calm and connection.
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Post by melodiccolor on Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:16 pm

I did a long reply but the site went down again and it was lost. I reply again tomorrow. (sigh)

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default Re: In the state of happiness

Post by melodiccolor on Tue Jan 31, 2017 4:29 pm

Cat wrote:I've been thinking on this one.

This has been a rough year for me too - but after reflecting on it, it included some of those major things you mentioned. (Deliberate cruelty, overwhelmed by things without time to recover, people close to me hurting badly) I've been pretty depressed and anxious lately, but looking at all of these things together now seems to make more sense.

Otherwise, my list of contentment is very similar to yours. A moving film will leave me feeling fulfilled a week after watching it, a moment of real connection, little moments of beauty and creativity. (I think I've had this tendency since childhood as well - I spent hours watching films like Jim Henson's Labyrinth on repeat without needing much more novelty than that. Sort of an obsessive quality of being able to appreciate the layers of things maybe? I'm not sure. Or maybe just the finding a deep connection within a particular thing and diving into that. People think my lack of variety can be nuts haha)

melodiccolor wrote:
I know how I relate to the world emotionally is fundamentally different than most others;  this really has been driven home.

Funny you say this, I was just talking to someone about how I rarely find people who feel really deeply moved by this genre of slow, dreamy music I love. After attending a live concert once, my friends at the time told me they found it "boring" more than anything, and weren't really interested in seeing it again. (Which, I understand that we all have different tastes, but the idea of other people not being able to feel any sort of deep emotions from the experience blew my mind. Disagreement and dislike make sense to me, but to not feel any type of emotional experience/reaction at all doesn't.)
When I asked them about this, they just asked me "What are you even feeling from it so deeply?" and I couldn't really articulate an answer, just that I felt...something. Inner harmony maybe.

It seems like most things I feel really moved by are just sort of "there" or "boring" to others. Is this what you mean too?

Overall, I am not sure if I would say I am able to enjoy time in the state of happiness easily. I tend to feel anxious and out of place during daylight hours, and just sort of soldier through. But maybe this is what makes me feel really deeply and intensely satisfied when I do experience those moments of calm and connection.
Feeling intensely and deeply are hallmark HSP traits. When you encounter those who have no reaction at all to something, it means they are not connecting or interacting to it in any way; it is meaningless to them. I find nonHSP of certain personality types to be more inclined to react in this way to anything outside of their normal range of life in general.

When I said I react differently than most people, I do even than most HSP. It's because of how I relate to my emotions. To me they are information, telling me about the situation I am in and about myself and about the space between the two. When things don't make sense, even when they hurt, my response first is bewilderment, not fear; and my reaction to this is to seek clarity, not to get away. It has been this way since I was a baby; I have memories back that far and more throughout childhood. I do not fear my emotions as a result, do not try to control them; they are invaluable tools. I have yet to meet someone else who relates to their emotions in this way; even those who are very emotionally healthy. It's been an eye opening journey to discover just how different other people are to me in this way.

Also, even other HSP have been shocked at the intensity and strength of my emotions shown fully. Many have run from me as a result, sadly, not knowing how to deal. This to me has also been bewildering. I do understand in part; it's the emotions they fear in themselves that scare them in me expressed clearly without muddiness of other things attached. But that is only part of it.

This way or relating to my emotions has resulted in a minimum of attaching and muddying with generalizing to things in the past that are unrelated; has made it easier to spot when I've done so and made it easier to process fully and let things go. This has served me well; as a child, I was bullied by kids both my age and older, disliked by the adults around me as being too different in school, and yet I was able to let it go once it stopped and heal quickly if even one teacher or person saw me for who I was and acted accordingly. They made all the difference and in spite of everything, eventually I was thriving. I have had to make my own way with little support many times in my childhood and in my life so I learned early my own strengths. Another way I am different from many others is that I always believed in myself and never lost that state of trust and wonder small kids have.

The good news is, I have seen others get to where I have always been; it is possible for anyone with enough determination and work. I have also seen those who too have always known their own strengths and never lost their trust. They shine in the face of adversity. In this way I am not so unique; I just wish it were more common.

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default Re: In the state of happiness

Post by RBM on Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:15 pm

MC wrote:
The good news is, I have seen others get to where I have always been; it is possible for anyone with enough determination and work. I have also seen those who too have always known their own strengths and never lost their trust. They shine in the face of adversity. In this way I am not so unique; I just wish it were more common.

Reminds me of one of Tom Campbell's quotes I really like - and really work hard on - 'Live gracefully with uncertainty."

The hard work is when you find a fear popping into your head, that just spreads moment to moment. Till the physical event that your are engaged in, that brought out the fear, is over.

Happened to me today at work. More often than not, though it's easy to work on, to the extent it's fuuuuuuuun.
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default Re: In the state of happiness

Post by melodiccolor on Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:52 pm

RBM wrote:
MC wrote:
The good news is, I have seen others get to where I have always been; it is possible for anyone with enough determination and work. I have also seen those who too have always known their own strengths and never lost their trust. They shine in the face of adversity. In this way I am not so unique; I just wish it were more common.

Reminds me of one of Tom Campbell's quotes I really like - and really work hard on - 'Live gracefully with uncertainty."

The hard work is when you find a fear popping into your head, that just spreads moment to moment. Till the physical event that your are engaged in, that brought out the fear, is over.

Happened to me today at work. More often than not, though it's easy to work on, to the extent it's fuuuuuuuun.
Why did that fear appear?  What is it telling you about the situation you were in or about yourself?  This is what I mean by valuable information.  Once you hear this, it tends to fade of it's own accord or it lets you know it needs to be there in that moment and will fade when it's no longer needed.

Tom Cambell's quote is a good one.

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default Re: In the state of happiness

Post by RBM on Sat Feb 04, 2017 6:17 pm

melodiccolor wrote:
RBM wrote:
MC wrote:
The good news is, I have seen others get to where I have always been; it is possible for anyone with enough determination and work. I have also seen those who too have always known their own strengths and never lost their trust. They shine in the face of adversity. In this way I am not so unique; I just wish it were more common.

Reminds me of one of Tom Campbell's quotes I really like - and really work hard on - 'Live gracefully with uncertainty."

The hard work is when you find a fear popping into your head, that just spreads moment to moment. Till the physical event that your are engaged in, that brought out the fear, is over.

Happened to me today at work. More often than not, though it's easy to work on, to the extent it's fuuuuuuuun.
Why did that fear appear?  What is it telling you about the situation you were in or about yourself?  This is what I mean by valuable information.  Once you hear this, it tends to fade of it's own accord or it lets you know it needs to be there in that moment and will fade when it's no longer needed.

Tom Cambell's quote is a good one.

The analysis of the fear takes me all the way back to core family dysfunctions dealing with trust of authority, and other fundamental issues. It's a well worn path in my life this incarnation and likely goes to issues that I am supposed to learn this incarnation.

The other element to the intellectual analysis goes to growing the Being state of consciousness more toward caring and compassion of others instead of the alternative of selfishness. That element is a long term developmental aspect, meaning over a single lifetime. Colloquially, it's called job stress.

Job hunting is ongoing.
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Post by melodiccolor on Sat Feb 04, 2017 8:49 pm

Ah, so "live gracefully with uncertaintly" really applies. Truly it's not about trusting authority, it's having faith and trust in yourself and your journey, that you will find the way and either the perfect job will show or you will discover another even better solution. With faith that it will show, you tend to notice when it does, even if it comes from unlikely places. With trust in yourself, you'll be willing to explore what comes your way openly.

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Post by RBM on Sun Feb 05, 2017 10:50 am

melodiccolor wrote:Ah, so "live gracefully with uncertaintly" really applies.  Truly it's not about trusting authority, it's having faith and trust in yourself and your journey, that you will find the way and either the perfect job will show or you will discover another even better solution.  With faith that it will show, you tend to notice when it does, even if it comes from unlikely places.  With trust in yourself, you'll be willing to explore what comes your way openly.

Yeah, the uncertainty is finding employment in which the trust in authority can be validated because of the competence that the authority has. Which is missing in this employment case and is my lesson to learn to not let it affect me emotionally. Since I no longer get angry at the incompetence, I can say I've made progress, but it does bring up a more ambiguous fear so the journey isn't over.
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default Re: In the state of happiness

Post by Cat on Fri Mar 03, 2017 5:32 am

melodiccolor wrote:

When I said I react differently than most people, I do even than most HSP.  It's because of how I relate to my emotions.  To me they are information, telling me about the situation I am in and about myself and about the space between the two.  When things don't make sense, even when they hurt, my response first is bewilderment, not fear; and my reaction to this is to seek clarity, not to get away.  It has been this way since I was a baby;  I have memories back that far and more throughout childhood.  I do not fear my emotions as a result, do not try to control them;  they are invaluable tools.  I have yet to meet someone else who relates to their emotions in this way;  even those who are very emotionally healthy.  It's been an eye opening journey to discover just how different other people are to me in this way.

Also, even other HSP have been shocked at the intensity and strength of my emotions shown fully.  Many have run from me as a result, sadly, not knowing how to deal.  This to me has also been bewildering.  I do understand in part;  it's the emotions they fear in themselves that scare them in me expressed clearly without muddiness of other things attached.  But that is only part of it.

This way or relating to my emotions has resulted in a minimum of attaching and muddying with generalizing to things in the past that are unrelated;  has made it easier to spot when I've done so and made it easier to process fully and let things go.  This has served me well;  as a child, I was bullied by kids both my age and older, disliked by the adults around me as being too different in school, and yet I was able to let it go once it stopped and heal quickly if even one teacher or person saw me for who I was and acted accordingly.  They made all the difference and in spite of everything, eventually I was thriving.  I have had to make my own way with little support many times in my childhood and in my life so I learned early my own strengths.  Another way I am different from many others is that I always believed in myself and never lost that state of trust and wonder small kids have.

The good news is, I have seen others get to where I have always been;  it is possible for anyone with enough determination and work.  I have also seen those who too have always known their own strengths and never lost their trust.  They shine in the face of adversity.  In this way I am not so unique;  I just wish it were more common.

Just saw this reply now.

I agree with you on this part especially - "It's because of how I relate to my emotions. To me they are information, telling me about the situation I am in and about myself and about the space between the two. When things don't make sense, even when they hurt, my response first is bewilderment, not fear; and my reaction to this is to seek clarity, not to get away"

I always try to stop and ask myself things like "This is hurting me and I'm not sure why. What's the root cause of the hurt?"

Friends have often told me to "Stop taking my feelings so seriously, they are just feelings." Which, in some cases, they are right. Anxiety doesn't always mean the end of the world is about to occur.
But since I've discovered I'm HSP, I've learned even more about myself by looking into my emotions this way. For one, that the idea of "unfairness" bothers me a lot..but life is inherently unfair, so now that I know that about myself, I can find better ways to cope and work through that so it hurts less the next time I encounter it. I try to use my emotions as information that contribute to personal inner growth and resilience.

The song I was talking about in my original post was this one - https://youtu.be/BMYt-60WYY8?t=7m12s

Everything by this band reconnects me to this feeling of "unity" I think. Kind of a nostalgia, mourning, and deep connectedness all wrapped up into one. After reading more about the band, the main singer describes his main source of inspiration as "a dreamy fairy-tale landscape he had visions of as a child." I had a landscape I used to retreat to in my head during times of conflict, so I think this is what I felt so strongly. "Finally, someone else who has been there...a song that understands."

This is one of those instances that helped me define myself as an HSP. Elaine Aron's book mentioned that not all HSPs are just fearful and anxious, but also moved to tears by intense moments of beauty. I've now figured out that these little pockets of understanding/connection are "intense moments of beauty" for me.

Or as Tolkien says, "I will not say 'do not weep,' for not all tears are an evil."

I can also connect with what your saying with "your emotions being too much for others to handle." Sometimes, I can regress and genuinely react like a CHILD to things. If I take something as a slight, I might say "OK enough! I'm out of here!" as a means of self-protection. My INTJ friend cannot stand this, and has said that after a certain point it's "just too much." I don't blame him, but at the same time...I'm in a learning process of re-discovering what my pain triggers are. I was trying to think of better techniques for dealing with this...like having a conversational 'safe word' for when things get too intense, haha!

That's great that you've always believed in yourself. I have always also, up until recently when someone close to me intentionally hurt me. I have not felt a deep betrayal like that for a long time, and it really sent me into a spiral of questioning whether I was the problem, or whether something is genuinely wrong with me for being so affected by a rift in a relationship while other people are able to just go out and party and process things quickly. I am still working through the resulting depression of it, but so far this has just shown me that connection and relationships are very important to me...and that's something I need to be careful with.

So again, emotional upheavals as information. Smile Too much analysis to some,...the road to well-being for others.
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Post by melodiccolor on Fri Mar 03, 2017 4:51 pm

So your present crisis is a result of a betrayal that caused you to question yourself and shook your trust in yourself. From what you post you are working through it. Sometimes the greatest opportunities to insight and growth are painful like this.

I didn't mean "acting like a child" when I posted about retaining those things that most loose as adults, or regressing, but keeping that inate sense of wonder and trust in self that all children begin with. Often the journey to maturing and finding one's true self is the journey to regain those very qualities that were lost.

Always honor how you feel. Listen to what it's saying and why you are feeling as you do. In the case of your INTJ friend, what are you referring to as too much? How are you getting overstimulated? If it's emotional connection, something is going on inside of you that is resisting it. Full connection means being comfortable feeling all the feelings of the one you're connected with, including those less acceptable feelings, even if you don't agree with their view. There may be something in this friend you are not wanting to relate to or connect with. If he's toxic in some way, this could be a form of self protection too. Without details, I wouldn't know, but you will.

So again, emotional upheavals as information. Smile Too much analysis to some,...the road to well-being for others.
Good insight.

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Post by Cat on Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:44 am

melodiccolor wrote:So your present crisis is a result of a betrayal that caused you to question yourself and shook your trust in yourself.  From what you post you are working through it.  Sometimes the greatest opportunities to insight and growth are painful like this.

I didn't mean "acting like a child" when I posted about retaining those things that most loose as adults, or regressing, but keeping that inate sense of wonder and trust in self that all children begin with.  Often the journey to maturing and finding one's true self is the journey to regain those very qualities that were lost.

Always honor how you feel.  Listen to what it's saying and why you are feeling as you do.  In the case of your INTJ friend, what are you referring to as too much?  How are you getting overstimulated?  If it's emotional connection, something is going on inside of you that is resisting it.  Full connection means being comfortable feeling all the feelings of the one you're connected with, including those less acceptable feelings, even if you don't agree with their view.  There may be something in this friend you are not wanting to relate to or connect with.  If he's toxic in some way, this could be a form of self protection too.  Without details, I wouldn't know, but you will.

So again, emotional upheavals as information. Smile Too much analysis to some,...the road to well-being for others.

 Good insight.

That's exactly it - it shook my trust in myself. But it definitely is a catalyst to some major self-reflection/growth. I'm shocked how easily my trust in myself was rattled.

Ah okay, that makes sense. It definitely is about learning to open your heart again in that child-like trusting way after being wounded. Like you said, it seems to just be the natural path of maturation - learning discernment for your individual self.

That's a really good point, it is overstimulation that I'm running from in those moments. I'm a little confused about the "toxic" term. Like you said, we all run the gamut of every positive and negative emotion there is, so I have a hard time distinguishing what is really "toxic" or not. Self-serving? Spiteful?
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Post by melodiccolor on Mon Mar 06, 2017 3:10 pm

Toxic is a term to describe a pattern of behavior that is harmful and destructive either to the person doing it or to everyone around them or both or to describe the person engaging in such behaviors. There are different pattern of behavior that results in this and many times they are not apparent on the surface but show clearly over time. The results of their actions can be devastating. The experiences that shattered your self trust may have been a result of someone doing this. It is worth noting that sometimes dealing with the aftermath of someone toxic presents really good if painful opportunities for insight and growth.

Overstimulation from someone else's emotions usually means something is being absorbed by you and you are reacting to it in ways you're not fully aware of. It might be worth exploring why this is happening.

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Post by Cat on Mon Mar 06, 2017 5:19 pm

melodiccolor wrote:Toxic is a term to describe a pattern of behavior that is harmful and destructive either to the person doing it or to everyone around them or both or to describe the person engaging in such behaviors.  There are different pattern of behavior that results in this and many times they are not apparent on the surface but show clearly over time.  The results of their actions can be devastating.  The experiences that shattered your self trust may have been a result of someone doing this.  It is worth noting that sometimes dealing with the aftermath of someone toxic presents really good if painful opportunities for insight and growth.

Overstimulation from someone else's emotions usually means something is being absorbed by you and you are reacting to it in ways you're not fully aware of.  It might be worth exploring why this is happening.

Gotcha. That betrayal/interaction was definitely full of negative projections that I had a hard time keeping my distance from in the moment - looking back I see how toxic it really was.

I was talking to another friend about this, since we both have a really dark/wicked sense of humor. What we decided was that we have a mutual agreement/knowing that we have each other in our best interests (laughter/humor) and that it's never meant to be destructive or spiteful. He mentioned that another friend with a similar sense of humor "made him feel worse after their interactions"...and I think the same thing must've been happening to him. He was absorbing an underlying intention of spite/destruction rather than camaraderie/support.

Going to pay closer attention and journal about this too.

Thanks for your insights as always, Mel. Having someone who dives as deeply into things as I do is a real help/joy.
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Post by melodiccolor on Mon Mar 06, 2017 5:48 pm

Anarkandi posted this youtube that is really good and it addresses much of what you're struggling with.  The title is a bit of a misnomer;  the insights and advice works with dealing with anyone who manipulate or try to control others and in finding your true self.  



Thanks Cat. Much of my insight comes from spending time with people met from this board.

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Post by Cat on Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:17 pm

That's exactly it. "Making you doubt your own experience, your own thoughts, and your own feelings."



Maybe just dreams. But my dreams.
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