There is no truth

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default There is no truth

Post by rombomb on Sun Apr 19, 2015 12:32 pm


"There is no truth." This is an interesting thing that lots of people think. People that believe this aren’t consistent about it though. They’ll say things like “Parents should teach their kids to love one another,” which is an assertion about what things are good or true. So here they are acting as if there is truth, while other times they say that there is no truth. And they choose which times are which arbitrarily. Basically they choose by whatever is most convenient for them at the time. No reasoning needed. Just blind assertions is ok.

Why do people buy in to this kind of philosophy? I think they do it because they want to ignore criticism and this philosophy helps them with that goal. Effectively, their philosophy helps them think sorta like this:

"You can't say I'm wrong or tell me what to do because there is no truth. Everything you say is just your opinion."


I can understand why people want this. Imagine an authoritative parent who forces his opinions on his child. The child disagrees with his parent, and he doesn't want to be forced to do things against his will. So the parent’s philosophy basically says:

"There is one truth and I know what it is, and you should follow it even if you're not convinced that it's the truth. Your agreement is not necessary. Just blindly trust and obey me. And if you don't I'll hurt you with punishment, as a means to providing you with incentive to obey me. And if my initial attempts at punishing you aren't effective, then I'll get creative and figure out exactly what *would* hurt you!!"

So some children in this sort of situation decide to defend themselves from their parents' irrational treatment by effectively saying:

"There is no truth. So you can't force me to follow what you say."

But this is a mistake. They confuse assertions of truth with good reason to use force against someone. Just because I believe something is good to do, that doesn't mean that it's morally right for me to force other people to do that thing. Basically the only time force is the right thing to do is when it's in self-defense against an aggressor.

So instead of denying that truth exists, you can say:

"I agree with you that there is one truth, but I disagree with you about what that truth is. So, no I will not follow your ideas which I believe are false. I will not blindly trust you because blind trust is wrong. I will live by my code and I'll update my code if I have reason to believe that I should change it. And to help myself find and fix my flaws, I will seek out critical discussion in search of the truth."

This approach is better than the anti-truth philosophy because it doesn't ignore criticism. Ignoring criticism effectively means closing off avenues to finding the truth. It means preventing mistakes from being found and fixed. It means stagnation.

The point is that criticism is the only defense against stagnation, so this philosophy treats criticism for what it is, A GIFT!!!

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default Re: There is no truth

Post by Alethia on Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:55 pm

You can view all life as a gift if you apply this code.
Acceptance is not about agreeing and living by others code
It is acknowledgment of what is before you.
Listening to others and listening to yourself, can be bridged as a principle in shared whole truth.


So how did you come to this realization. What part of you was playing out in all this to build awareness of Criticism as a gift?
Have your recent experiences opened you to see that you don't have to defend yourself constantly in the face of it?
Or are you just comparing views of truth without your own experience relating this?
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default Re: There is no truth

Post by rombomb on Fri May 08, 2015 11:50 am

I came to this realization mainly be recognizing that all ideas have a purpose.

One idea I never understood is why people think that there is no truth. So when I asked myself "what's the purpose of this philosophy" I recognized that it's a response to another philosophy, a sort of self-defense from it.

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default Re: There is no truth

Post by Zen on Fri May 08, 2015 7:03 pm

People seem to think truth has to absolute in all cases to be true.
If there is no unquestionably real reality or ultimate absolutely definite truth, some people find this bothering or incomprehensible. And chaos is bothering to many, since it tends to get associated with things like darkness and evil and the unknown.

Who knew you sometimes get to decide and determine what is real or true for yourself and to do that you have to believe in yourself to believe in it truly.

There is no need to convince others or justify my truth if someone doesn't believe me. When my parents try to convince me of something, sometimes I kind of laugh and play along. They're trying so hard to keep control of their inner space they way they want it, too bad they will not get to share mine due to this behavior. I trust they'll see that eventually.

People who feel the need to convert others to one truth, tend to feel threatened by an equally real truth because it makes them doubt themself and their place in society, or even the meaning of life if there isn't one answer out there they are forced to accept.

People who feel threatened or insecure in their place in the world, sadly hurt each other, and often feel like making their truth true for other people will make it more real, so they stoop to controlling people and shooting down other world views as erroneous. Rethinking who you thought you were is pretty hard, people will go through extremes to avoid it and keep their sense of order. This time of vulnerability is hard for children who are easier to control and are just beginning to find out who they are.
Parents who beat into themselves truths they don't quite like but try to convince themselves they really believe, will try hard to beat it into children, especially if it makes them feel like they belong more in society by doing it or their self worth is tied to doing so.

Children and adults do this alike, it depends on your level of self awareness and your connection to the world I believe.
Your relationship to the world is yours alone, parents, society, and other people don't get to decide that for you, even if you want them to.
This also means you have absolutely no idea what someone else's world is like. I think it's important to listen to children, because you can learn too. That is if their world is important to you and you want to be part of it.
People never get to get off the learning train I don't think lol.


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default Re: There is no truth

Post by RBM on Sun May 10, 2015 9:39 am

The truth exists, but at such a deep level, that most don't/can't uncover it.

As a 'science guy' compared to this boards membership, I'll note that science, in some areas, is making progress to uncover it and that it takes a multidisciplinary approach of metaphysics, physics and philosophy, to actually uncover such truth.


Last edited by RBM on Sun May 10, 2015 1:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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default Re: There is no truth

Post by rombomb on Sun May 10, 2015 9:48 am

Yes you can't do science without philosophy.

The claim that science works is a philosophical claim.

The method known as "the scientific method" is a philophsical theory.

It's interesting how so many people, including scientists, reject philosophy as important or relevant to science.

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default Re: There is no truth

Post by Zen on Sun May 10, 2015 7:17 pm

rombomb wrote:Yes you can't do science without philosophy.

The claim that science works is a philosophical claim.

The method known as "the scientific method" is a philophsical theory.

It's interesting how so many people, including scientists, reject philosophy as important or relevant to science.

You can go in logical circles all you want in philosophy till your head explodes because they're always thinking about it being this or this rather than how two things are the same in nonsensical ways.

It's also impossible to quantify things that exist beyond thinking in language without just expressing yourself freely.
When you start asking people to trust you on things because it's true for you and you can't prove it but felt like it,and they cannot understand, it doesn't really count as science.
Science seems to call this the supernatural and it's religious business.
I don't understand why the minds of people, our spirit/awareness being and our feelings don't count as part of the natural world just because you can't observe them impartially and unbiasedly.
Perhaps self awareness is just completely unexplainable lol lol lol.


To me this means, nothing is literally true and there is no such thing as face value.
Look at it face value wise, you will never understand past frivolous facts which do change as we grow.
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default Re: There is no truth

Post by melodiccolor on Mon May 11, 2015 3:11 pm

This article goes into some depth on this topic and holds a view I fully agree with:

http://nautil.us/blog/david-deutsch-explains-why-its-good-to-be-wrong?utm_source=howtogeek&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter

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Life is complex.  Parts of it are real and parts of it are imaginary.  (read in a novel by Gregory Benford.)

Absurdity is one of the great joys of life.

All you need for a rich life is to see more.
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default Re: There is no truth

Post by rombomb on Mon May 11, 2015 7:54 pm

Hey ya that's David Deutsch.

Everything in my OP is basically a re-explaining of what David Deutsch says in this book _The Beginning of Infinity_. Like nothing of what I said in the OP is new compared to what I learned from David. I should say that some of what I learned was from discussion on the public email list for his book BOI.

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