Net neutrality is dead

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default Net neutrality is dead

Post by Samt03 on Wed Jan 15, 2014 1:45 am

Linku: http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-mh-net-neutrality-20140114,0,522106.story#axzz2qRJ7VJ29

Net neutrality is dead. Bow to Comcast and Verizon, your overlords

Advocates of a free and open Internet could see this coming, but today's ruling from a Washington appeals court striking down the FCC's rules protecting the open net was worse than the most dire forecasts. It was "even more emphatic and disastrous than anyone expected," in the words of one veteran advocate for network neutrality.

The Court of Appeals for the D.C. circuit thoroughly eviscerated the Federal Communications Commission's latest lame attempt to prevent Internet service providers from playing favorites among websites--awarding faster speeds to sites that pay a special fee, for example, or slowing or blocking sites and services that compete with favored affiliates.

Big cable operators like Comcast and telecommunications firms like Verizon, which brought the lawsuit on which the court ruled, will be free to pick winners and losers among websites and services. Their judgment will most likely be based on cold hard cash--Netflix wants to keep your Internet provider from slowing its data so its films look like hash? It will have to pay your provider the big bucks. But the governing factor need not be money. (Comcast remains committed to adhere to the net neutrality rules overturned today until January 2018, a condition placed on its 2011 merger with NBC Universal; after that, all bets are off.)

"AT&T, Verizon, and Comcast will be able to deliver some sites and services more quickly and reliably than others for any reason,"  telecommunications lawyer Marvin Ammori (he's the man quoted above) observed even before the ruling came down. "Whim. Envy. Ignorance. Competition. Vengeance. Whatever. Or, no reason at all."

The telecom companies claim their chief interest is in providing better service to all customers, but that's unadulterated flimflam. We know this because regulators already have had to make superhuman efforts to keep the big ISPs from degrading certain services for their own benefit--Comcast, for example, was caught in 2007  throttling traffic from BitTorrent, a video service that competed with its own on-demand video.

Amazingly, even after Comcast was found guilty of violating this basic standard of Internet  transmission, the FCC greenlighted its acquisition of NBC, which could only give the firm greater incentive to discriminate among the content being pipelined to its customers.

ISPs like Comcast are only doing what comes naturally in an unregulated environment, the way a dog naturally scratches at fleas. "Cable and telephone companies are simply not competing for the right to provide unfettered, un-monetized internet access," wrote Susan Crawford, an expert on net neutrality, around the time of the Comcast case.

This wouldn't be as much of a threat to the open Internet if there were genuine competition among providers, so you could take your business elsewhere if your ISP was turning the public Web into its own private garden. In the U.S., there's no practical competition. The vast majority of households essentially have a single broadband option, their local cable provider. Verizon and AT&T provide Internet service, too, but for most customers they're slower than the cable service. Some neighborhoods get telephone fiber services, but Verizon and AT&T have ceased the rollout of their FiOs and U-verse services--if you don't have it now, you're not getting it.

Who deserves the blame for this wretched combination of monopolization and profiteering by ever-larger cable and phone companies? The FCC, that's who. The agency's dereliction dates back to 2002, when under Chairman Michael Powell it reclassified cable modem services as "information services" rather than "telecommunications services," eliminating its own authority to regulate them broadly. Powell, by the way, is now the chief lobbyist in Washington for the cable TV industry, so the payoff wasn't long in coming.

President Obama's FCC chairman, Julius Genachowski, moved to shore up the agency's regulatory defense of net neutrality in 2010. But faced with the implacable opposition of the cable and telecommunications industry, he stopped short of reclassifying cable modems as telecommunications services. The result was the tatterdemalion policy that the court killed today. It was so ineptly crafted that almost no one in the telecom bar seemed to think it would survive; the only question was how dead would it be? The answer, spelled out in the ruling, is: totally.

The court did leave it up to the FCC or Congress to refashion a net neutrality regime. The new FCC chairman, Tom Wheeler, has made noises favoring net neutrality, but he also sounds like someone who's not so committed to the principle.

In an important speech in December and a long essay released at the same time, he's seemed to play on both sides. But that won't work. The only way to defend net neutrality, which prioritizes the interests of the customer and user over the provider, is to do so uncompromisingly. Net neutrality can't be made subject to the "marketplace," as Wheeler suggests, because the cable and telephone firms control that marketplace and their interests will prevail. Congress? Don't make me laugh--it's owned by the industry even more than the FCC.

The only course is for public pressure to overcome industry pressure. That's a tough road, but there's no alternative. Do you want your Internet to look like your cable TV service, where you have no control over what comes into your house or what you pay for it? Then stay silent. If not, start writing letters and emails to your elected representatives and the FCC now. It's the only hope to save the free, open Internet.
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default Re: Net neutrality is dead

Post by frmthhrt on Wed Jan 15, 2014 1:57 pm

Wow. That is pretty sad.
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default Re: Net neutrality is dead

Post by melodiccolor on Wed Jan 15, 2014 5:21 pm

Well, this is just another battle in a long war. Things look grim atm, and may start having impacts. But my guess is if things go too far or get too blatant, the outcry and backlash will change things once again. Unfortunately, if history is any indicator, once something is lost, it usually isn't fully regained, just the minimum amount industry can get away with legally.

The only solution I can see is a return to small independent dsl companies sharing the lines of the bigger ones; much like dial up companies once did. Such smaller companies can thrive on the promise of delivering net neutrality.

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default Re: Net neutrality is dead

Post by melodiccolor on Fri Jan 17, 2014 4:18 pm

The wrong words: how the FCC lost net neutrality and could kill the internet (link)

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default Re: Net neutrality is dead

Post by RBM on Sat Jan 18, 2014 1:10 am

Comcast and Verizon are just pipes. The dumber the better.

Pure Corporate Greed was the motivational force to try to spin dumb pipes into 'information services'.
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default Re: Net neutrality is dead

Post by Zen on Sat Jan 18, 2014 11:50 pm

I've heard comcast also dials in bandwith between their customers and sites unevenly too. If they are being tested for their load times ect, they give the testing site more bandwith by taking it from other places...
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default Re: Net neutrality is dead

Post by RBM on Sun Jan 19, 2014 11:39 am

Zen wrote:I've heard comcast also dials in bandwith between their customers and sites unevenly too. If they are being tested for their load times ect, they give the testing site more bandwith by taking it from other places...

I'm curious how this is accomplished from the technical end of things. If you come across a explanation, could you post it ?
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default Re: Net neutrality is dead

Post by Zen on Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:57 pm

RBM wrote:
Zen wrote:I've heard comcast also dials in bandwith between their customers and sites unevenly too. If they are being tested for their load times ect, they give the testing site more bandwith by taking it from other places...

I'm curious how this is accomplished from the technical end of things. If you come across a explanation, could you post it ?
Sure, I'm unsure how it works too.
I do know our comcast internet's bandwith disappeared at like 2AM-4AM on the spot though back when I was using it. AT&T didn't do that when we switched so it had to be something with comcast that was doing it not the weather or make of the building ect.
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default Re: Net neutrality is dead

Post by tezorian on Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:04 pm


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default Re: Net neutrality is dead

Post by RBM on Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:43 pm

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/01/the-nsa-speech-obama-accepts-the-logic-of-staying-terrorized/283173/

I'm generally impressed by The Atlantic's work and this is no different.
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default Re: Net neutrality is dead

Post by RBM on Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:44 pm

tezorian wrote:

Tez, no viewing in the US.
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default Re: Net neutrality is dead

Post by Zen on Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:59 pm

RBM wrote:
tezorian wrote:

Tez, no viewing in the US.
I smell conspiracy. What do u think?
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default Re: Net neutrality is dead

Post by tezorian on Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:51 am

Once again, more of that bull-crap. Why should it not be available everywhere? It's a song that is known worldwide...
Meja - All 'bout the money.

Then again, it does link up with what i wanted to say about youtube. Numerous videos are being removed due to "copyright violations". Now if it were actually songs, videos or movies, then i could agree with it. For a moment i actually tried to believe that this was the case. However, it is not the case. Even videos that hold opinions of people about songs or movies are quickly removed if someone reports it and claims to be the rightful owner of ... whatever it is. The extent of what can and can not be allowed is not determined by youtube, but the "owner" of what ever part is in the video. This can be a TV showing a movie in the background, a poster on the wall or even hardly audible background music.

A couple of months ago i watch a gameplay video and heard the user say, "Have to turn off the music, otherwise this video might be removed." I thought it was sarcasm at that time, because it wouldn't possibly be true, right? Well, i was wrong.
Soon after i decided to watch a certain video later on in the day. When i tried to continu watching it, i got the error ""this video was removed due to copyright" or something. Mind you, it was a video of someone giving his view, thought and opinion on a movie. There was no video footage of the movie or even audio from the movie. Yet, it was still removed.

If someone makes money of someone elses work, by using their work, i would agree with the removal. Yet there are quick a few people who are just doing it for fun. None of their videos are monitized (i think that's what youtube calls it), yet they still feel the hard end of the stick. There are already a few people who have stepped away from youtube, because of this. Zapatou and TwisterNederland are only two of them. Especially Zapatou is a shame. Not only does this guy deliver truly amazing videos (check "best of the web), he also linked every single video he used in the description.

Another thing is "piracy" and the fight against it. They only use half of the information about it and twist it to gain control. Where as they say that every illegal download is lost revenue, which actually does make sense, it is not true. The research they refuse to use, shows that downloaders buy much more than people who don't download (i think it was 20-40% more). If they would use this information, they would lose convincing power. While it is logical to think that every illegal download would be a loss in revenue, the truth is that most people would not even buy it, even if it was not available as a download.
Another thing they use as a foot behind the door, is that people who supply the means for these downloads to be available, earn money with it. Often this is true. However, they do not care about them making money out of it. They care about the money they want. The money these suppliers earn is supposedly the money they didn't get. This is also a logical assumption. Yet this would mean that if there were no suppliers, all that money would go into their pocket. This however, is not true. Another thing they say is that they have to pay the artists they have under contract. Even though this is true as well, they do not pay all that they should. A lot of the money they receive does not go to the rightful owners. It's not only that they do not deposit all the money of the artists to their account, they also use the money that is intended for the artists to buy things for their office. As it is said like this, there seems nothing flawed. However, for a non-profit organization, there is no need for designer furniture and decoration. A 3000+ dollar desk-chair or a 12000+ dollar desk does just not seem required for their operation, to me.

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default Re: Net neutrality is dead

Post by melodiccolor on Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:35 pm

ACLU's petition to restore net neutrality (link)

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default Re: Net neutrality is dead

Post by melodiccolor on Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:46 pm

This isn't net neutrality, but it's another form of controlling net content for profit:


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default Re: Net neutrality is dead

Post by RBM on Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:57 pm

melodiccolor wrote:This isn't net neutrality, but it's another form of controlling net content for profit:

I think V. hit the nail on the head as did your comment.

By the way, I have a technical question. Below it the code I cut out of your comment, sans a couple of brackets so it wouldn't render in this post:


>flash(425,350)]http://www.youtube.com/v/l9ZqXlHl65g[/flash<

Does that execute is long as the host server has flash embedded in the browser or is there something to be done at the operating system level ?
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default Re: Net neutrality is dead

Post by melodiccolor on Tue Jan 28, 2014 8:56 pm

RBM wrote:
melodiccolor wrote:This isn't net neutrality, but it's another form of controlling net content for profit:

I think V. hit the nail on the head as did your comment.

By the way, I have a technical question. Below it the code I cut out of your comment, sans a couple of brackets so it wouldn't render in this post:


>flash(425,350)]http://www.youtube.com/v/l9ZqXlHl65g[/flash<

Does that execute is long as the host server has flash embedded in the browser or is there something to be done at the operating system level ?
To answer your question, you have to add flash on to your browser. Programs that run flash such as youtube videos, interactive animated boards and games require you add it on. I have mine set to notify me if there is an update so I can unselect some junkware that would otherwise be loaded with it, but keeps it current and thus more secure.

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default Re: Net neutrality is dead

Post by melodiccolor on Tue May 06, 2014 3:46 pm

While this issue is winding it's way through the courts and legislative procedures, big isp providers are already throttling things and it's more than just Netflix. An 'internet middleman' calls out six ISPs for letting connections slow down (link)

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default Re: Net neutrality is dead

Post by melodiccolor on Thu May 15, 2014 7:46 pm

The latest volley in the war for net neutrality: The FCC Just Approved A Proposal That Will Completely Change The Internet As We Know It (link)

This is no surprise, it isn't set in stone yet and the legal wrangling continues. Ultimately, this will likely end up in the Supreme Court years after the damage is done.

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default Re: Net neutrality is dead

Post by melodiccolor on Fri May 16, 2014 3:15 pm

The FCC doesn’t have to authorize Internet fast lanes—they’re already legal (link)

Some clarification. It's really unclear what will become of the net beyond fast lanes; my guess is we'll be offered less net for the money if we don't opt to pay for those fast lanes.

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default Re: Net neutrality is dead

Post by RBM on Fri May 16, 2014 6:16 pm

melodiccolor wrote:The FCC doesn’t have to authorize Internet fast lanes—they’re already legal (link)

Some clarification.  It's really unclear what will become of the net beyond fast lanes;  my guess is we'll be offered less net for the money if we don't opt to pay for those fast lanes.

I think you hit it squarely.

It's easy to see if you have a few decades as a consumer to compare from then to now.
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default Re: Net neutrality is dead

Post by melodiccolor on Wed Sep 10, 2014 10:53 pm

Here's a chance to keep net neutrality alive and what I wrote to the FCC:

http://act.freepress.net/letter/internet_fcc_nprm_oliver/?source=share
Having a free and equal internet is vital to creativity, learning and growth, that can't be steered by any one large group or company wanting control over easy access for profit or a view.

A multitiered internet goes against the very ideals of free and equal access to speech and communication that our country was founded on. Please reclassify ISPs as common carriers and negate earlier rules issued. There is too much at stake not to.


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default Re: Net neutrality is dead

Post by Samt03 on Wed Sep 10, 2014 11:11 pm

Mel wanted me to post what I said to the FCC here so:

The net has long been thought of as a place for people to be free to express their views, share their feelings, and ideas with others. Allowing companies to slow down or block services opens the door to the possibility that companies can find other ways to stop people from sharing their true selves with others. It's an equal playing field where anyone from any walk of life can interact with other people without them knowing who they are.

Passing this law would change all that. Not only would it slow down the sites seen as fun like netflix, but you'd have individuals from areas not able to pay the higher fees cut off from access that individuals able to pay the fees could get. There's a large possibility content deemed to large wouldn't be shown to people, that people would loose opportunities to shop, interact with and create that they would have without this law. What creativity, what passion, what ideas are going to be extinguished if this bill and others like it are allowed to pass?

I really dislike slippery slope type things and this feels like one of them.
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default Re: Net neutrality is dead

Post by melodiccolor on Wed Sep 10, 2014 11:14 pm

Agreed; basically what these rules amount to is censorship in the name of profit. Once that door is opened, further erosion is far too easy.

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default Re: Net neutrality is dead

Post by melodiccolor on Mon Sep 15, 2014 5:38 pm

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/the-internet-slowdown-generated-nearly-a-million-useless-comments?utm_source=howtogeek&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter

Maybe we should be writing to our representatives instead of the FCC and other federal bureaus. Suspect

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default The Indie Web movement

Post by waterdragon7 on Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:37 pm

In some respects, the corporate ISPs have created this themselves with all of their bs about net neutrality:

http://dangillmor.com/2014/04/25/indie-web-important/

I recall somewhere in the mid- to late 90s, there was a big debate that since the Internet was developed with taxpayer money, it should never be used for commercial purposes. Perhaps we should go back to that....no Netflix, no Amazon, no large corporateISPs, etc. Yes, I know this is "throwing out the baby with the bathwater," but facing the choice of actual net neutrality with some revenue vs zero revenue, I would guess the large corporate ISPs might be a lot more amenable to actually providing net neutrality.


Last edited by waterdragon7 on Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:41 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : repaired removed non-functioning link)
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default Re: Net neutrality is dead

Post by melodiccolor on Wed Sep 17, 2014 8:05 pm

I agree that an indie web movement is vital. However ISP providers still can control access to such noncommercial ventures and that is the true danger. What we need are a true free market for internet access in the first place.

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default Re: Net neutrality is dead

Post by waterdragon7 on Wed Sep 17, 2014 8:41 pm

melodiccolor wrote:I agree that an indie web movement is vital.  However ISP providers still can control access to such noncommercial ventures and that is the true danger.  What we need are a true free market for internet access in the first place.
Mesh networks mght be a possibility, although it will require a lot of work. Especially with tablets and smartphones.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesh_networking

It would be very difficult, but on the other hand, it would take control of access away from the corporate world.
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default Re: Net neutrality is dead

Post by melodiccolor on Sat Nov 01, 2014 4:15 pm

http://www.theverge.com/2014/10/31/7138449/m-lab-netflix-comcast-verizon-isp-business-dispute-congestion-traffic-interconnection

Internet traffic jams are widespread in the US, and are probably about to get a lot worse.

I think they're overstating the problem but it really outlines the net neutrality problem and how politics and profit is really impacting us all.


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default Re: Net neutrality is dead

Post by RBM on Sat Nov 01, 2014 6:11 pm

In the last week, I've seen a new message pop up while watching youtube.

It asks if I experience disruptions and has only popped up when youtube stalls with the icon timer presented on-screen.

This is brand new to me. I don't know just yet what the responsible party/mechanism is, but have started looking for more definitive symptoms. At this point I'm periodically running free speed tests as returned per Google search.

Don't know if it ties in with this, but would be curious if anyone else is seeing anything new and different - in a bad way.
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