Voting on our Constitution

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default Voting on our Constitution

Post by melodiccolor on Sat May 31, 2008 9:56 pm

The Constitution of our Forum


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Last edited by melodiccolor on Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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default Re: Voting on our Constitution

Post by reb on Mon Jun 02, 2008 11:08 pm

jesus, is that all that's gonna vote? bout like a general election....lol!
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default Re: Voting on our Constitution

Post by melodiccolor on Mon Jun 02, 2008 11:25 pm

I'm assuming you did vote Laughing ....I know, I know. We'll see at the end of the polling period.

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default Re: Voting on our Constitution

Post by Nucky on Tue Jun 03, 2008 1:14 am

reb wrote:jesus, is that all that's gonna vote? bout like a general election....lol!
reb

I wonder if some people want to vote "no" but are afraid to.

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default Re: Voting on our Constitution

Post by Logan (Earthmaiden) on Tue Jun 03, 2008 7:25 am

nuckinfutz wrote:
reb wrote:jesus, is that all that's gonna vote? bout like a general election....lol!
reb

I wonder if some people want to vote "no" but are afraid to.
What's to be afraid of? Looks more like people don't want to vote rather than being afraid to vote.

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default Re: Voting on our Constitution

Post by StrawberryLife on Tue Jun 03, 2008 8:37 am

Hmm... Maybe we could say, 'Do you approve this for now/for the time being?' & there may still be suggestions accepted & incorporated into it later on...

Or, people with good/better/any suggestions can post them here in this thread...

(I was staying away cause I thought it was 'another lengthy post/thread' to read... Smile & was busy with/focused on other things...
Also, I do not know how these guidelines will work 'in action' - in time, maybe there will have to be amendmends (?) or 'edits'... So I would reserve the right to do this in time, if necessary... or so...)

What do y'all think...? Smile
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default Re: Voting on our Constitution

Post by StrawberryLife on Tue Jun 03, 2008 9:23 am

Or, we could ask: Is there any aspect of the stuff in the 'constitution' that you have a problem with, or wonder about...?

We don't have much experience with things like this & it may be a general characteristic of INFPs or so to 'dawdle' & ponder, 'Is it good, or isn't it?' & 'could it be improved? & how' lol
I admit this is the case with me too... I don't know if things could be improved, or how... But I may be a bit weary of 'cementing' things... Hence the suggestion above...
****
I would have some doubts about paragraph 2, under 'Forum Rules' - I am not sure how it would work in action... What if someone doesn't want to talk via PMs (maybe becasue they misunderstood something or so, or they could be too upset or busy in RL or something) but responds to stuff posted on the board? (the 'stay away from posting about it on board' part - maybe it needs some further classification. Would this be after a warning from the mods or so?) Also, what would a 'town meeting' consist of? & when would it be put into action, & such.

Maybe it would be good to include something like this:
If two members have a conflict, they are recommended to try to talk it out themselves first. Some ideas how to do this:
1. (state the problem, as you see it) Mr/s Poster, are you really trying to say/do this?
2. Mr/s Poster answers, presenting his/her point of view, & whether or not the above was their intention.
Some things may be clarified here already.

Mr/s Poster may have been trying to say something else in the 1st place!! Or, they may realize their idea was somewhat outrageous & tone it down a bit... Or, they may admit it's an outrageous idea & stick with it mrgreen In that case, consider if what they say falls under 'free speech' or is it really hateful or problematic or spiteful & such?
We do try to encourage free speech (within legal limits & general respect), & you are free to express dissatisfaction or disagreement with something that is stated, but in a respectful way that still allows free speech of others.
In case of doubt, the thread-starter, mods & admins have some priority of deciding on preferred action regarding the particular thread, while the 2 conflicting parties are also consulted. (eg 'Please try to sort it out in PMs, so we can keep the general discussion in the thread on-topic & we don't have to lock the thread' is IMO better than just locking the thread without warning.)

If things don't improve/get sorted out, a moderator can ask both parties & both answer:
1. What seems to be the problem here? (the answers can be totally different!!)
What do you think the other person is saying & how come it bothers you so much?
& also: PS How are things in your life going at the moment (please be prepared to answer stuff about medical health & wellbeing, possible new medications or diets, or changes in dosage of medications - all those can influence how we feel & perceive things, some medications or health conditions can make us more irritable etc.)
Some things may be somewhat clarified at this stage already...

2. Do you wish the problem to be solved?

3. If so, list (at least) 3 or 5 possible ideas for things that could be done to fix this/things that you would be satisfied with (first both just give ideas, without choosing or reviewing them)

4. choosing an idea (or several) that both would be equally happy (or equally dissatisfied Smile ) with - this could happen either in PMs or a special private 'conflict resolution' group, before being presented to 'town meeting', which would be (as I see it) in a private but less private space such as 'Comfy Chair' or such... (?)

Basically, it seems that what I was talking about in a long-winded way is kinda to have a 'Conflict Resolution Corner' - like they have them on some schools already, where 2 kids in conflict can resolve it with help of 'peer mediators'...
If I were in conflict with someone, I'd prefer to do the semi-private 'conflict resolution' before a 'big time' 'town meeting'...
Mods (or other trusted members) would have the role of mediators... who could PM the members & ask them to come into the 'CR Corner' (?) - no idea how could it be better named, suggestions welcome!! Smile)

The process is better described here: http://www.studygs.net/peermed.htm
http://www.studygs.net/conflres.htm
or maybe in other links online... (I've seen better summaries, but no idea where... Smile)
http://www.google.si/search?hl=sl&q=peer+mediation&meta=

Maybe it's not necessary to put all of the above into a 'constitution' Smile but the process of 'conflict resolution'/'(peer/mod) mediation' could be noted as an intermediate step before 'Town Meeting'... What d'yall think?
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default Re: Voting on our Constitution

Post by reb on Tue Jun 03, 2008 9:49 am

too much talk; when does the voting period end, mel? when it does, my view is to slam the goddam door, and move on. i sound like a broken record, i guess, but for god's sake, the process of failure begins when we cease to move forward...decisions involve risk, as you and i know. we either take risk, and do things, or we are like the rest of the functionally impaired.....if the 'silent majority'wants to remain silent, then they are not 'with us'. (i can feel the intj rising up in me on this...lol!)

hell, yes, i voted! lol! was there any doubt???
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default Re: Voting on our Constitution

Post by Logan (Earthmaiden) on Tue Jun 03, 2008 10:56 am

reb wrote:too much talk; when does the voting period end, mel? when it does, my view is to slam the goddam door, and move on. i sound like a broken record, i guess, but for god's sake, the process of failure begins when we cease to move forward...decisions involve risk, as you and i know. we either take risk, and do things, or we are like the rest of the functionally impaired.....if the 'silent majority'wants to remain silent, then they are not 'with us'. (i can feel the intj rising up in me on this...lol!)

hell, yes, i voted! lol! was there any doubt???
reb
affraid I'm with Reb, slam the goddam door and move forward! headbang thumbsup Extra Happy This is the problem with letting the whole damn community be involved in the decisions the admin should be making.

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default Re: Voting on our Constitution

Post by Little Sister on Tue Jun 03, 2008 11:20 am

Yeah, I admit, I haven't voted, because my "inner anarchist" is rebelling. Don't even want to read the whole thing. So go ahead and do what ya' gotta' do.
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default Re: Voting on our Constitution

Post by Rivershine on Tue Jun 03, 2008 1:24 pm

Little_Sister wrote:Yeah, I admit, I haven't voted, because my "inner anarchist" is rebelling. Don't even want to read the whole thing. So go ahead and do what ya' gotta' do.

Anarchy, Anarchy!!! Mwahahahahaaaa!!!

Ahem.
*cough*
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default Re: Voting on our Constitution

Post by melodiccolor on Tue Jun 03, 2008 3:19 pm

Strawberry,

I had a whole thread of discussion and contribution on this constitution and many people contributed. Once I synthesized it to as few words as possible while still including all the important points, I left it open for discussion and further modification for the last 3 weeks. Suggestions were made and changes resulted. For the last week to 2 weeks, there has been no further discussion. So this version stands for the vote.

We don't need to spell out exactly what the procedures are for dealing with conflict; it is implied that the last step, voting for a resolution is to be used only in cases where everything else has failed. In our current group, I doubt we'll ever have to use any of these things, but as we grow, who knows? So we have a very flexible way of dealing with the unknown.

Admittedly, this is an experiment; Justin's vision that we were willing to give a try. If it fails, then we can revise things. But as long as this forum doesn't become a whole city, it should work fine.

Little Sister, what's with the rebellion over this? This was a group effort and every effort was made to keep things as anarchic as possible and still be able to deal with serious problems.

After all, the group that wrote this thing are very into freedom and individuality and the nonviolent definition of anarchy. lol! headbang

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default Re: Voting on our Constitution

Post by Nucky on Tue Jun 03, 2008 3:39 pm

We can definitely accept this as our constitution for now. Of course we should be able to change it if we find it necessary. I don't see any reason why this has to be a be-all, end-all.

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default Re: Voting on our Constitution

Post by Little Sister on Tue Jun 03, 2008 4:32 pm

I trust your judgement on this, and will go along with whatever's decided.
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default Re: Voting on our Constitution

Post by adain on Wed Jun 04, 2008 5:03 am

Sorry I took so long. Just hadn't got round to it.
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default Re: Voting on our Constitution

Post by reb on Wed Jun 04, 2008 1:54 pm

Adain,

here...i'll give you this so you have it the next time you need it....

O

that's 'a round tuit' lol!
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default Re: Voting on our Constitution

Post by StrawberryLife on Wed Jun 04, 2008 8:03 pm

lol Well... you asked.... why people didn't comment/vote... I attempted to provide some answer... & my personal thoughts (after I got my anarchic/not-give-a-damn/'hates politics & this has a C-word in it!' betsy to reading it!! Smile) - so I gave 'em... Smile

I understand it was a sign of exasperation/frustration, not a real question... Smile Still, I answered... sorta... longwindedly, as I can... Smile
/It sorta got out of hand Smile/
Basically, it was meant to help with any possible futture conflict-resolution thingies... But probably another thread would be deserved for that... (Or does it exist already? No idea. Brains completely fried.)

I agree with Nucky, this can be a Constitution 'for now' & I agree the words 'meet privately' could be used to mean what I described above too... (I just thought it might give people a clearer idea to spell it out, sorta... & basically, I did speak of this in the thread you mention, only more briefly... if I remember it right...)

Rebs, why do you whine for people to vote then, if you just wanna 'get it over with'? Wink
That's exactly why some people don't vote... (Leaving it to others may leave out frustration of not being certain or wondering if 'yes' or 'no' are really enough options, or maybe questioning if any ideas were/will not be taken into account in the 1st place... Smile And basically all Law actually does make me kinda queasy... I often wonder if there are not exceptions etc...)

/& yes I still didn't vote lol - I'm still a wee bit undecided, & 'just wanna get it over' thing isn't helping my inner anarchist not to rebel Wink/
But I do trust Melodic & Reb who put it all together mostly... They did a great work & I believe they're getting tired of it all by now... lol (no wonder!! Smile)
So I'll go along with whatever y'all decide & won't post flame wars on other HSP forums or all over the Google or such... mrgreen

/See? I am physically unable to write a short post!! Laughing Let alone choose between 'yes' or 'no' - But I can write you a 1000-word article about it! Smile/
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default Re: Voting on our Constitution

Post by Nucky on Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:00 pm

I really think we should move on with what we've got for now. I really don't think that we should keep on brainstorming about every single little scenario that could possibly occur, we'll be drafting our constitution for years and years if we do that. What we've got is fine for a small forum like this. Let's move on.

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default Re: Voting on our Constitution

Post by Rivershine on Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:41 pm

nuckinfutz wrote:I really think we should move on with what we've got for now. I really don't think that we should keep on brainstorming about every single little scenario that could possibly occur, we'll be drafting our constitution for years and years if we do that. What we've got is fine for a small forum like this. Let's move on.

Amen. What ever happened to a simple forum terms of service? Neutral Really, it doesn't have to be this complex. Let's do move on. Please.
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default Re: Voting on our Constitution

Post by StrawberryLife on Thu Jun 05, 2008 10:22 am

Okay. LOL Agreed Smile
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default Re: Voting on our Constitution

Post by reb on Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:47 am

SB, you wrote:

Rebs, why do you whine for people to vote then, if you just wanna 'get it over with'? Wink
That's exactly why some people don't vote... (Leaving it to others may leave out frustration of not being certain or wondering if 'yes' or 'no' are really enough options, or maybe questioning if any ideas were/will not be taken into account in the 1st place... Smile And basically all Law actually does make me kinda queasy... I often wonder if there are not exceptions etc...)

/& yes I still didn't vote lol - I'm still a wee bit undecided, & 'just wanna get it over' thing isn't helping my inner anarchist not to rebel Wink/
But I do trust Melodic & Reb who put it all together mostly... They did a great work & I believe they're getting tired of it all by now... lol (no wonder!! Smile)
So I'll go along with whatever y'all decide & won't post flame wars on other HSP forums or all over the Google or such... mrgreen

/See? I am physically unable to write a short post!! Laughing Let alone choose between 'yes' or 'no' - But I can write you a 1000-word article about it! Smile/


i wasn't trying to bite your butt specifically...this issue has gone on since the board was started; we wrote (Justin and Logan and others kicked in some stuff, not just me and mel; mel was the prime mover, i think, as she 'condensed' it, so let's give credit to all).

as far as 'voting', here in america, they go on and on and on with 'political hot air'; then thay have one day to vote. this thread has been herre since....scroll up...May 31. that's 5 days, if i got my math right...people have had over two months to give input, argue, scream, kick whatever....those who have not made up their minds are not going to, and i don't wait around for those who can't make up their mind in my personal life, nor did i ever in my professional life...i may think on something for years, but i don't talke much about it. i may ask a lot of questions of a lot of people, but i don't involve 'their personal effort' in my quandary, as has been done here. those who have put in work (and some ahve) deserve a response. frankly, not giving a response is rude in my 'miss manner's handbook' (lol! as if miss manners would ever ever have anything to do with me).

it's up to each person whether they want to vote or pontificate or dither around...but when it's time to make a decision, the bs stops for me, and i do something. i have a long long bunch of experience that tells me this is the most efficient way to live, and i walk the talk. Smile remember, 'lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way' (boy, did i run right over some people! lol....some of them never knew what hit 'em-floundering bumpkins lol!)

also, i have to differ with you about 'physically incapable'; if you were physically incapable of not writing long posts, it would be because your conscious mind couldn't control your fingers; in fact, i would agree that you are psychologically incapable, as about 50% of the time am i.....the instant example being just one more to add to the list lol!

let's 'git 'er dun, son!' Smile
reb

ps, as an ex-girlfriend of mine used to say 'and another thing' (if i hanna had a list of ex-girlfriens, my life would not be near so rich with comments), the list of people who voted and/or commented is just about the list of people who intend to be active here. this is also reflected in the voting at election time in america....the rest are straphangers. straphangers are always along for the ride; they are like remora on sharks....lol! remora have a right to live, too, but they are not sharks....disgusts me that they kill the shark to get the fin to make soup....sharks are noble creatures....

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default Re: Voting on our Constitution

Post by StrawberryLife on Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:44 pm

Hm, yeah, I see your point...

Maybe I was a bit of a strap-hanger in the 'political ways of the forum'... (I admit) Great work done by you guys!!

I just like the forum as it is, & let the political stuff to others mainly... MAybe that's a fault of mine.. In RL too.. Well, Life is full of lessons, I guess... sunny I do think the conflict resolution deserves at least a thread or such, but maybe people will be even more scared into 'behaving' if they don't know exactly what can happen to them at a 'town meeting' - hmm... /Here's a thought.../

Maybe for deciding on things next time there could be a timeline too...

/& yeah, I know I'm a few e-mails overdue to you too... Still thinking about it all... My ROM & RAM (in the head) sometimes take a long time to process stuff.... Or get frozen doing/thinking these or other things.../

So I guess... after long talks & all - 'The Constitution' is accepted? Wink

Who shall be crowned King or throw balloons/bubbles in the air or something...? Smile
/& who voted, 'No?'/
Mysteries remain... Smile
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default Re: Voting on our Constitution

Post by reb on Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:22 pm

SB,

approved? heck, i dunno....lol! so far, 88% say 'yeah' Smile

as far as conflict resolution, it aint that hard....either someone will calm down and act rational, or they won't.....what's to figger out? Smile
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